In Defense of Daydreaming: An Interview with Silas House

Join host Carla Gover and Kentucky Poet Laureate Silas House as they discuss the creative life. The episode explores the fears and resistance writers face, the importance of honesty in storytelling, and the impact of cultural and religious conditioning on self-expression. Silas shares his journey, experiences, and thoughts on creativity, including his thoughts on representing marginalized groups, collaborating with other artists, and much more. This candid discussion is filled with wisdom, humility, and encouragement for all aspiring artists.

Key Points Discussed:

Fear and Resistance in Writing:

1. The challenges of writer's block and distractions like social media.
2. Importance of honesty and writing stories or poems you want to read.
3. Fear as an engine that drives the creative process.

Cultural and Religious Conditioning:

1. Expressing oneself fully despite cultural and religious backgrounds.
2. Working on a novel addressing strict cultural backgrounds, faith, and desire.

Representation and Responsibility:

1. Importance of representing marginalized groups like gay Kentuckians.
2. Impact of Silas's work on young queer individuals.
3. Being conscientious and authentic on social media.

Impostor Syndrome and Humility:

1. Challenges of feeling inadequate in elite literary settings.
2. Maintaining a down-to-earth attitude despite high-profile connections.
3. Personal validation from readers vs. professional awards.

Balancing Tasks and Self-Care:

1. Juggling various activities using checklists and prioritizing tasks.
2. Importance of self-care and knowing personal limits.
3. Psychological approach to to-do lists and rewarding oneself.

Thoughts on Creativity and Art:

1. Creativity as a constant state of being.
2. Daydreaming as an essential part of the creative process.
3. The complexity and multidimensionality of personal identity.

Projects and Future Works:

1. Upcoming picture book "That Dog Won't Hunt."
2. New novel set in the early 1900s focusing on environmental issues.

Connect with Silas
Website
Instagram
Facebook

Transcript

0:37

I'm so excited to finally be doing this interview with you. I know we've been trying to make it happen for a while, but thanks for being on the show. Welcome. Glad to be here. I kinda wanted to spend this time talking about creativity and craft. I mean, that's one of my favorite things to talk about anyway. But for me, lately, I've been in an extremely busy season of my life where I am doing a whole bunch of different projects, spending a bunch of different plates. And I know from watching you and talking to you that you have been in a similar season. And so I am particularly interested in the way that artists organize and maybe systematize their work and kinda keep everything straight. So that's one of the things that I wanna talk about. So let's just start with that. You know, you already have your teaching, your writing, you're doing media and things with music and videos, and now you're our state poet laureate. Mhmm. What do you do to sort of keep it all straight and keep your project straight? Well, I feel like a juggler most of the time. The main thing is every morning I get up and prioritize what's gonna happen that day. Mhmm. I have to have a little list that I check off. Often, I don't get that list done when I think I'm going to. Mhmm. But, you know, you just do the best you can with it. I'm also pretty good at giving myself breaks too. You know? I mean, I stay really, really busy, but I also know when I'm gonna hit a wall Mhmm. And I can feel it coming. You have to take care of yourself Mhmm. To have that sort of stamina. You know? And so I think part of the juggling act is, you know, you have 3 or 4 balls in the air that are busy, and then you'll have one of those balls though has to be rest. And occasionally, you you catch that. For me, that sometimes just means going down and sitting by the creek with the dog Mhmm. You know, and having a moment of stillness. I don't mean, like, a treating myself day as, you know, like a spa day or anything like that. But I think, you know, we're real similar in that. I think the simple pleasures are a real rest for me to go out in the woods Mhmm. To be by a body of water, to be with the dog. Those things really matter, and it doesn't mean that you have to take the whole day off, you know. Sitting with the dog and petting them for 10 minutes to me is really rejuvenating and I can go back to work. So I think you have to figure yourself out as an artist on what you need and how to pace yourself properly. That's a great point, and I agree about the bodies of water. What is it about water and creativity? It just helps. Yeah. It's primal, I guess. But also, I think when you're from Appalachia, there's something about bodies of water too. We're always drawn to them. I don't know why. Maybe because we have so many bodies of water. Mhmm. I took 22 students to Ireland a few years ago. 11 of them were from Appalachian, 10 of them were not. At every body of water, we would stop at my Appalachian students. I would turn around and they'd all be wading or they'd be swimming. And the other ones would be like, why are they doing? You know? And so that was when I first noticed there's a real difference in the way we react to water. That's interesting. It is interesting, but to me, I think it's just one of the primal things, the sound of running water. Mhmm. You know, there's hardly anything better than the sound of water running over rocks. You talked about having that to do list and then not finishing it every day, looking at it, and having things you haven't crossed off, which is completely relatable, I have to say. So you mentioned looking at your to do list at the end of the day and not having everything ticked off. One thing I've noticed lately that I don't feel like I do enough is actually acknowledge all the stuff I did tick off. Mhmm. Do you do that? Do you have anything Oh, yeah. I reward myself. Yeah. And I said, you know, goals and deadlines are really important for me. I think having those deadlines in mind helped me to achieve my goals. But I also don't beat myself up too much if I don't meet that deadline on that day. You know? I mean, of course, eventually, you hit, you know, a point where you have to get it done. But I think you have to be easy on yourself about, not necessarily meeting the goal for that day. The important thing is to have those deadlines and to have those goals. So important. Deadlines are my best friend Yep. As an artist. Self imposed deadlines too. So let's say my publisher gives me a deadline of Christmas, then I'm gonna make a deadline for myself of thanksgiving. Mhmm. And that's another thing that I often do with deadlines is I will, sort of group them with holidays or important days so they're easy to remember, they're easy to shoot for. Also, you have a built in reward there. Right? Like, you wanna have something done by Christmas so you can enjoy being with your family or and friends at Christmas time or having that free time. Absolutely. Yeah. We're going on tour and I've got a couple of things and I'm like, this is gonna be done Yep. Before we leave. Do you have any particular systems that you use, you know, any of those online scheduling programs or you just make a little note on a piece of paper kind of a guy? Yeah. I just have little I have a notebook by my bed. When I'm trying to go to sleep is when I start to think about everything that I need to do. And so, you know, used to, I would just it was sort of like the self fulfilling prophecy of I couldn't sleep because I would sit there and do all that. Once I learned to have my little notebook there and, you know, write write it all down, after I get, like, 10 things written down, I'm like, alright. That's enough. That's all I'm gonna achieve tomorrow. I can go to sleep now. That's so great to talk to you about these things because it's just like, that's me. You're literally you know, it's it's really important for us as creative people to have these discussions with each other. And, also, I hope that there are some younger artists that are listening to us right now because it took me a long time to learn some of these things. Yeah. Write have a notebook by the bed and write it down because exactly the same here. Learn how to pace yourself, learn how you work, learn how to take breaks, learn how to reward yourself. I mean, all those things 100%. One thing especially, I've noticed that since you became poet laureate, you've had a much wider sphere of people that you've been interacting with. You have worked with some high profile musicians like Tyler Childers. Now you're working on TV series. And there are times that you get to move in these kind of rarefied spaces and meet, you know, celebrities. Was it Wynonna? I saw you you got to meet at at Real Bird. And, you know, there's tons of people like that, inspiring artists that you've gotten to meet. But I also have noticed that you, you have a very down to earth life with your friends and your family and your puppies and just make a pan of cornbread. So it's not like you're just living some kind of glamorous jet setting life. And I was kinda wondering, as an Appalachian person and this has been on my mind a lot lately because I'm working with, Mountain Association, and I'm doing some consulting with Appalachian artists who are trying to get better at monetizing their work. And there is such a self esteem kinda issue that many people deal with having grown up with a culture that's so stigmatized, and they're having a hard some of them are struggling with putting their art out in the world. Some of them, I think, would struggle to be around somebody they considered a celebrity, like, am I even worthy of this? Have you noticed in your time as a professional artist and as a writer who's gaining more acclaim, have you just kind of grown along with that journey, or do you think you changed first and that allowed some doors to open for you? Kind of a chicken and egg question. Well, first of all, I think that there are lots of spaces I'm not very comfortable in. Mhmm. And so, you know, on one hand, like, I was a judge for the National Book Awards last year. And so going to that, I was not really comfortable. The the literary world is pretty moneyed. You're judged a lot on what school you went to, who you know, and all that. And so I I I don't often feel comfortable in that kind of world. However, most of the you know, any celebrity that I've worked with, I just always think of what my, you know, my parents would always say, would they put their britches on just like, I do. You know, and that's the way I go into it. I never go into it like in a kind of a starstruck thing Mhmm. Or thinking that that they're, like, different or anything like that. I just like, you know, they're a human being just like anybody else. And so I think that has served me Mhmm. Well because I go in with a down home attitude, and I think that brings out the down home attitude. It's been very rare that I've worked with any musician or, you know, any kind of celebrity that they haven't been, just totally gracious and and generous and all that. My experience of having the imposter syndrome is more in those rarefied class worlds Mhmm. Where you're being judged a lot on, do you know which fork to use? I mean, I I often go into spaces where I open my mouth and I can see that people in the audience feel like as soon as I start talking, my IQ goes down for them, and that's real easy to identify. Oh, yes. And sometimes, maybe that's not the case. Maybe I'm reading their face wrong because I do have that chip on my shoulder. You know, I didn't grow up with money, and, you know, little small eastern Kentucky towns are often very class divided. Mhmm. So I do have a lot of baggage about that. I have a lot of impostor syndrome. I also think that impostor syndrome makes me a better artist because it makes me want to it makes me wanna do the best I can. I've always been aware that a lot of us have to work twice as hard to achieve what we wanna achieve because we did go to a state university instead of, you know, Ivy League or whatever. But there are still spaces in the literary world that will not let you in if you went to a state university. Mhmm. Yeah. And that is frustrating for me. And when I am occasionally, very rarely, let into those spaces, I just feel like a sore thumb, and I'm like, I don't wanna be here. Well, I'm kinda curious now about if you could describe a moment where you have seen something come to fruition with your artistic work and you're experiencing I don't know if it's an award or just you see a book has been successful in a certain way, and you just have this feeling of just gratitude and like, oh, wow. Wow. I'm really doing it. I did this thing. Like, can you think of a moment like that? I think those moments happen more for me when somebody comes to my reading and they'll say, reading your book really helped me through a hard time. Mhmm. You know? That's the moments for me. I mean, to get a Grammy nomination feels great because it's such a widely known award, but it doesn't it doesn't move me and stay with me like somebody telling me that a woman came to my reading the other night and she said, my mother died a month ago. And then, you know, the 2 months leading up to her death, I was reading A Portrait of Leaves to her, and it was a balm for her and me. I'm like, man, that's better than any Grammy nomination. You know? It didn't get much better than that. And so I think it's the 1 on 1 things like that that really and I don't mean to poo poo awards or anything, you know, but that's more rewarding. Yes. Yeah. Well, now I'm also curious. Is there anybody that you admire as an artist who if you did meet them, you might be starstruck? Well, I mean, Dolly Parton would be the one for me that would be, you know? Mhmm. I met Laura Lynn. That was real I was really starstruck by her. And I mean, I was overcome with emotion Yes. Because she just embodied, so much of my family pride. Mhmm. For my family, Loria Lynn was like the, I don't know, the pinnacle of representing in the larger world the way we wanted to be represented. Mhmm. And so it was really emotional for me to meet her. I have my daughter with me. She was about 4 or 5 years old, and so Laura Lynn didn't pay a bit of attention to me. She just thought I felt like, you know, like nudging Shane out of the way and be like, hey. I wanna talk. But I think it was helpful to have that buffer there for me. Otherwise, I might have just just broken down. So that's probably the most starstruck that I have been. I would have been too. I'm sure. Loretta was oh, meant so much to me growing up for sure. So how do you deal with the inevitable resistance that comes up for it seems to come up for most artists? And I I imagine that at this point, you've got your strategies down because you've been doing this a while now. But, do you have a special method or even just advice for dealing with and it could be emotional resistance. It could it could be the ways that we distract ourselves. What do you do? I'm not sure I understand the question. I'm sorry. Okay. I'll ask it again. But so, you know, with writers, people will say they have writer's block. A lot of people just have a lot of fear about putting their art out and the resistance so resistance can come up in in lots of different ways. You know, it can come up in we get distracted when we would rather be we mean to write, but then we're watching social media or, you know, even professional writers, I think, we all have to still struggle sometimes. So does that make sense? I think there's always a lot of fear involved for me. I think that it's always a challenge to know if anybody's going to like this. But I'm always writing the book that I want to read. I'm always writing the story or the poem or whatever that I want to read, and hopefully, it will resonate with other people. I think for me, anytime I have tried to write something that that I think, you know, is specifically for a particular audience or anything, it just it doesn't take flight. I just have to, like, be honest. I think honesty is a big part of it for me, like, just trying to tell an essential truth in my writing Mhmm. And that that will resonate. You know, my first novel, I didn't understand when I was writing it that what people the reason that resonates for people is because it's about community and storytelling. Those are 2 of the primal things. Mhmm. When you can tap into something primal like that, it will resonate for people. You know, my last book is a lot about grief. When I went on book tour, I had a lot of people, you know, who would come and tell me their stories of grief. Mhmm. It was especially vital to have a book about grief that came out when it did in 2023 because so many people were coming out of the pandemic and hadn't been able to experience their grief properly. Mhmm. They weren't able to go to funerals. They weren't able to be with people when they died. And so that book was successful in a way that I couldn't have predicted. You know, when when I wrote that book, it was turned in before the pandemic. So I didn't know it would resonate in that way. So that's what I mean. As sure as you think you have figured out, oh, this is the way to write a best seller, that's not the way it works. You can't predict that, you know, not with art. So kind of the way that you move past your fear is just to continuously try to write the stuff that you would wanna read and be honest? I think that I just want to tell a story and then I hope that it speaks to somebody. With that said, I'm still never letting go of that fear and the fear is the adrenaline that the engine needs. You know? The fear is fueling the piece of art. Well, that's interesting. I'm gonna think about that because, you know, we grew up with similar religious backgrounds, and I noticed that that is something that still affects me. I mean, expressing myself fully and freely, knowing that I'm not just being conditioned the way that I was as a like, I have a hard time. I cuss in my personal life, but, like, sometimes I feel like I wanna cuss on this podcast, and I don't because, Same. I don't wanna be judged. And but you've been so brave in your books in talking about subjects that would have been taboo to talk about in our church. Oh, yeah. Well, the book I'm working on right now, I'm working on a novel that is about people who are raised, you know, in really strict in a really strict culture trying to rectify their faith with their desire. It's really hard for me to write, you know, a novel that is dealing a lot with sex. Mhmm. But it's a huge part of being a human being. Yes. And so Yes. I'm really exploring that in this book. And, you know, I have several characters who are trying to rectify all that. Whether they're gay or straight or whatever, it's still about the way that you rectify your desire and your your faith system, your religiosity. So I that's a big fear I have is, like, thinking about the people who are gonna read this book and I'm, you know, I'm having I have to write sex scenes in the book in a way that I haven't before. Mhmm. But again, I think that every novel I read, I wanna have a challenge in it like that for myself. Mhmm. I think that challenge makes the making of the art more vibrant and more vital for me. And it makes me it feels like I'm pushing myself instead of just doing the same thing. I always wanna have a different challenge for each book. Yeah. I love that. Well, that leads perfectly into the next question that I had. So as Eastern Kentuckians, we are especially where I think of how much representation matters and how important it is to see ourselves reflected with some measure of authenticity or dignity or nuance Mhmm. In in, pop culture. And when I read your first book, that was the first thing that grabbed me. It was just like, thank god. You know, somebody is writing the Kentucky that I know that is not just some hee haw version that the Hollywood screenwriter came up with. And and I think you've done a great job in doing that in all your books. And then more recently with Southernmost and Lark Ascending, you're writing gay characters who are, well, at least in southernmost Appalachian with the same tenderness and care that you've shown in all of your writing. And so as we were talking about before, one of my favorite things as an artist too is to get glimpses of how my work might have changed someone's point of view or touched them. And so I would be interested to know, in particular, how those two books where you have these gay characters being presented with beauty and nuance, the reactions you've had? Mhmm. Well, you know, I mean, there are not a whole lot of gay Kentuckians in the public eye Mhmm. Even though there are a whole lot of gay Kentuckians. And so it has been one of the most moving things for me and one of the things that, you know, has made me think about the responsibility of representation in a whole different way is, especially the amount of young queer people who write to me or talk to me when I go to schools or universities or, you know, whatever. It just feels like a a real responsibility to try to do the right thing Mhmm. As much as I can. But then I don't always know what the right thing is, you know, so you just sort of have to live as conscientiously as you can and and hope that you represent properly. You know, the main thing for me in that is just trying to make sure that I'm representing properly on social media Mhmm. Because things get so easily misconstrued. Right. And so, you know, I I won't always be authentic and honest always, but I also really think through things before I post them to see how many different ways they can be misconstrued. Right. Yeah. Because I've just learned from experience that they're going to be. You know, there's a whole contingent out there whose whole goal is to misconstrue what you're writing. And I have made mistakes on social media. You know? I have lost my patience sometimes with people Mhmm. Being, you know, bullying and things like that. I've taken the bait. Yes. I have learned to not take the bait. Mhmm. But, you know, it's a real it's a top wire act to to learn how to not take the bait, but also not be a doormat. You know? Right. That can be hard to do. And so you just have to choose your battles real carefully and not take the bait, but but eventually address that in different ways. You know? I I think the most important thing for me is to always present myself as a multidimensional person. Mhmm. I don't ever want to just be a gay person Right. Or a country person or a person of faith or whatever. I wanna I always want people to name me as all those things. And I'm all those things not in spite of those things, but because of all those things. Mhmm. And I think, you know, as as many great things as the Internet has done, the worst thing it has done has allowed us to think so much in absolutes. And so I'm always trying to I always wanna push people to think in less absolutes and more complexity. Mhmm. With that said, you know, I mean, my first novel, there's there's a whole group of people who say that it breaks all these stereotypes, and then there's a whole group of people who say it perpetuates stereotypes. So, you know, that's another thing about art is to some degree when you put it out there in the world, it doesn't totally belong to you anymore. That's the scariest part, you know? So I think I learned pretty early on that you can never please everybody. All you can do is is try to be as true to yourself and the story you're trying to tell as possible. And for most people, that comes through. You know? Mhmm. So on one hand, I'm thinking about how that will come through for most people. On the other hand, I'm thinking, if this speaks to one person and does something for them and moves them, then that's all that matters. It's sort of like being a teacher, I think, is the same way, you know. I will have 26 students and I care about all of them, but sometimes I know that I'm only reaching one of them. Mhmm. And but if I can just reach that one, then that that was worth it. Yeah. Well, I'm curious to know, before we let you go, what you're working on now, what exciting projects you have coming up. I have sold a picture book about my beagle. It's called That Dog Won't Hunt. And it's about a beagle who's who refuses to hunt. He's too tenderhearted to hunt. It's a great title. I love it. And, this really bothers the grandfather in the family. And so that leads to some you gotta have trouble. Right? And so it leads to some trouble. Everything ends well. And then I'm working on a new novel that I hope to have finished by the end of this year. It's set in the early 1900. It's set in a fictionalized Clay County, Kentucky, Lexington, and Brooklyn. So it's about Eastern Kentuckians. Some of them are living in Eastern Kentucky, some of them are exiled to New York City and Lexington. It's all about desire and especially forbidden desire. Mhmm. So a lot of it is about, you know, the natural world, the loss of the natural world. It's an environmental novel. You know, some of that was happening in a huge way in the early 19 100 and all across America, but especially in Appalachia was clear cutting. Yes. And so it does love trees, which have, you know, trees have been one of the saviors of my life and one of the, you know, the great loves of my life have been trees always. And so it's really hard for me to write about this devastation that was happening at that time. But my lead character is, you know, fighting against that. Wow. That sounds really interesting. And I love the way with a novel this is intriguing to me because I'm just a songwriter. You know, I don't I don't write I mean, other than I write emails to people, but just the idea of putting that much those different story lines and the different things going on and being able to have that many words at your disposal, that's kind of amazing. See, the thing is it's gonna take me 400 pages to get across all the emotion and all the layers and everything that you do in 3 minutes. Because I feel like, you know, a really great song does everything that a novel does. So to me, it's so much harder to write a song or a poem because it's so much your your canvas is so much smaller, but you still have to deliver the same It's same same end goals. Well, I'm so glad that we have novels and songs because both of them are like air to me. Oh, me too. I would not be a novelist without songs, for sure. And I mean, it all carries each other. Yeah. Amen. Well, I always like to end my episodes by asking my guests for their best tidbit or pointer about living a creative life. And I try to make it broadly applicable to just whatever somebody's art form might be because my listeners tend to be people that are creative themselves and also people who care about making the world a better place. So what do you have for us? I think the misconception about being a creative person is that it's something that you turn on for so many hours a day. And in fact, being a creative person means that, you know, that's the way you walk through the world. You're you're always being a creative person. It's not something that just happens when you sit down and start typing or, you know, putting words on the page. It's being in the grocery store and, you know, being aware of what's happening around you. You have to be an observer of human beings and the natural world and everything all the time. It's like it never turns off. I think, you know, if I had a tip for anybody who wants to be creative, let's say if you wanna write a novel or a song or whatever, the first step to that is to be an observer. Mhmm. You have to be still for some of that. You know? Mhmm. That doesn't mean, you know, you're just, like, sitting around daydreaming in a field of wildflowers. But it does mean that you're, you know, you can be in that, sitting in that field of wildflowers, that daydreaming is still productivity. It's it's not just lollygagging. Mhmm. You know? Yeah. And, well, for people outside the region, I mean, but that is like, you know, it's not just being lazy and dreamy and all that. It's even when you are daydreaming, something really active is happening. Mhmm. You know, that's the thing. I'm sitting here having to defend daydreaming. Right? Because that's the culture we live in. And we, as an artist, we can't think of it that way because we know that the daydreaming is where where the creativity happens. Yes. That's the magic, you know, that's where it's come and the work. And there's sort of this cultural implication that if you are sitting in filled with wildflowers, you're just not doing anything. And as artists, we know that, yes, we are. Well, this podcast is called What Dreamers Do. Mhmm. And all my listeners, I call them my dreamers. And so we are all on the same page with you, I think, and that's a wonderful way to end your visit. It's so great to get to visit with you, and I just love you like a brother. You you know I love you too. And you have you have your work has inspired so much of my art, so I think it's just a testament to the way art feeds art. Well, likewise. And I can't wait to see what you dream up next. It's gonna be dirty.